I would not want to say that commitment - whether it be philosophical or religious - is necessarily ruled out by such a methodology. I am not a member of any church. WebAt some point, many people considering the Catholic Church face this question: Why become Catholic, and not Eastern Orthodox? 1. In 2004, a similar situatin erupted when the EP struck the Archbishop of Athens from the diptychs, supported by the Pope of Alexandria and the Patriarch of Jerusalem (both from the EPs jursidcition in Greece), threatening to revoke the Tomos that regulates the jurisdiction between the autocephalous Church of Greece and the EP over Greece (another myth-Orthodox Church boudaries, following Caesaropapism, goes along political boundaries. What has the response been from the Orthodox Church to this crisis? He replied: "I don't belong to any party, nor to any political group. In other words, I think option 2 points towards the Catholic Church, too. As Cardinal SenOMalley explains: The Ecumenical Patriarchs recognition of his own See, Constantinople, as New Rome, leads to my second point. Like much of modern-day Islam, the Orthodox Church has yet to completely shake off its autocratic medieval inheritance and to promote democratic principles, both within the church and outside it. part 1), you say Pope Benedict is the Patriarch of the West. Benny 16 renounced that title in 2006, in order to help ease the reunification of the two Churches. live, learn and work. For that reason, Ive been a bit hesitant to answer thewhy not Orthodox?question, for fear of making the perfect the enemy of the good. Catholics who follow a magisterium and not our own reasoning, or you who feel able to discern for yourself which church is the right one? But the limitations and blind spots of their work are also becoming increasingly apparent. These other, presumably logical questions, are simply not how the Orthodox think or pray. Such is not the case. Without wishing to enter into these interminable debates, it might be worth adding a second underappreciated philosophical point. During Lent, in a spirit of self-criticism, I wrote an installment of this newsletter Another historical fact is that the pope was systematically trying to introduce religious customs which were not acceptable to the Orthodox, he was trying to latinize them. Why Catholics Cannot Become Orthodox - Catholicism Coffee This is sometimes a difficult message to get across to Western converts, for whom Orthodox rituals hold a special appeal and charm, in comparison with the aesthetically barren religious environments of their upbringing. But given my philosophical background, there are two often overlooked points I think are worth highlighting. As the Protestant scholarPhillip Schaff noted: It should be remembered that the change effected by this canon did not affect Rome directly in any way, but did seriously affect Alexandria and Antioch, which till then had ranked next after the see of Rome. Pope Saint Damasus rejected Canon 3 of the 1st Byzantine cumenical CounCil. WebAnswer. The History of Lenten Abstinence The history of Catholics abstaining from meat on Fridays in Lent provides an interesting story Posted by Dan Hamilton on March 3, 2010 in News. This field is currently suffering from a "dogmatic slumber," brought on in large part by the conservative and evangelical stream of the Christian church. What is the difference between Christianity and Roman Catholicism After all, Orthodoxy can look mighty appealing. I am also a convert to orthodoxy . WebRegardless of how similar the Orthodox faith is, or how valid their sacraments are, leaving Catholicism for Orthodoxy has grave consequences and is not the path to Ehrman provides a rare but important contrast between ancient and modern metaphysics as a way of showing how comparatively easy it was for Jesus to "become God." Quora - A place to share knowledge and better understand the world Theology, on this picture, does not allow for radical or genuine questioning: if we start from a position of faith, then our questioning or seeking begins by already having found what it searches - namely, God. If we wish to grapple with the ultimate questions of life and death in novel, interesting and fruitful ways, a creative and adventurous spirit is required, one that is prepared to occasionally depart from the conventional and familiar in order to freely roam on roads less travelled, imaginatively constructing speculative theories and experimenting with diverse myths, models and metaphors of, for example, God and world. WebAs you can see, the Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox New Testament canons are identical. I would love to see a post that addresses these issues and really gets into the details of the real Orthodox objections to them. Always the orthodox seeing himself as superior, that is the arrogance that makes them orthodox and see their mistakes as truths. Not much of the original writing There is need for Catholics, especially priests, to engage in a convincing Apologetics when confronted by Catholics tempted to become Eastern Orthodox, or by members of the Eastern Orthodox Churches claiming to represent the orthodoxy of the Church before the tragic Schism between East and West, developing after 1054 A.D. The church has 21 million members, according to 2022 figures, amounting to 24.8% of the population. This is religion reconfigured as ethics and justice, as responsibility to the other (conceived as holy because absolutely singular: tout autre est tout autre) - but it is a religion without religion, without priests and dogmas, thus freeing or decontaminating religion from its violent and exclusionary past. Watch the full interview here: https://youtu.be/WY6zu23mRKwDr. The pope has primacy, not supremacy, which means that he can change something only when the synode is in agreement, not impose his will on the other christian leaders. Consider also the fact that one would be hard pressed to find in the published output of a contemporary philosopher of religion any fundamental changes or reversals, such as giving up belief in God, or relinquishing some significant religious belief. Does the importance of having the truth justify it? A little bit of philosophy, and history of philosophy, goes a long way towards demystifying the divinity or divinisation of Jesus. He was not entirely mistaken. Sadly, things have not greatly progressed since then. Without wishing to deny the importance of ritual, which provides a sense of order and meaning to many people today tormented by insecurities and anxieties of all sorts, there is a tendency in Orthodoxy to over-indulge in liturgical practices. Leivaditis's early poetry is heavily influenced by a doctrinaire communist outlook, his participation in the communist resistance movement during the Second World War and the civil war, and his subsequent detention and exile in various camps across the Aegean islands. Canon 3 of the First Council of Constantinople, Ein kurzer Rant betreffs der stlichen Schismatiker | Nolite Timere. But these proposals invariably demand the revision or rejection of other fundamental logical or metaphysical principles (such as "absolute identity," the seemingly obvious view that identical objects cannot differ in any respect), and so again we must be presented with exceedingly good reasons for giving up these principles: they cannot be renounced lightly, or simply to save a "degenerating research program" such as Nicene Christology. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. A dispute also arose among them, which of them was to be regarded as the greatest. In contrast to Catholic engagement with the world, one the author of the article clearly mentions it: it is good that initially those who seek the truth trust their studies and their reason but whoever comes to understand the Petrine magisterium discovers a real authority to follow and not simply a community that comes closest to sharing his own beliefs. Indeed, over the last decade, Orthodox theologians in Greece have placed the theology of the 1960s in serious question, and have called for a more authentic and informed renewal and reformation of the Orthodox Church. Im saying that if the Church is to be united, there must be an icon of ecclesial unity, and that Peter was that icon and Rome is., The bishops of every nation must acknowledge him who is first among them and account him as their head, and do nothing of consequence without his consent; but each may do those things only which concern his own parish, and the country places which belong to it. Why Admittedly, there are many Orthodox leaders who champion freedom, justice, equality and pluralism in principle, but in practice they often remain wary of the open competitiveness and embrace of difference that democracy promotes - consider the reluctance of the hierarchs and clergy of Greece in supporting church-state separation. But which shepherd do the sheep follow if they start going in different directions? wow,,very interesting . (2) St. Paul mentions in Titus 1:5 that Titus was tasked with selecting and ordaining presbyters. The four original Patriarchal Sees were all Petrine. Why You read the article with your eyes closed. If the issue is going into too much detail, thats a myth, because EO fathers have done the same, particularly in Christological subjects. Constantinople was added as a fifth Patriarchate, a controversial move initially opposed by the pope (but eventually accepted). ("Nick") Trakakis is Senior Lecturer in Philosophy at the Australian Catholic Philosophy. Following Russell's lead, I want here to outline why I have chosen to sever my ties with the Orthodox Church, after many years of participation in the church and reflection on its history and teachings. I am reminded of the great medieval conflict between Russian and Greek Orthodox over whether the sign of the Cross should be done with two or with three fingers. As an Eastern Catholic, I am already living out the spiritual life of an But isn't this disingenuous? Catholic Trent Horn explains the divide between the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Churches, how they are the same, and There I was introduced to some wonderful scholars, including the eloquent, softly-spoken and Oxford-trained John Chryssavgis (who connects spirituality with ecology, and currently serves as advisor to the Ecumenical Patriarch on environmental issues) and the comparatively tempestuous American-educated Themistocles Adamopoulo (a specialist on the apostle Paul, now in Pauline fashion undertaking missionary work in Sierra Leone). Timothy Ware, a prominent Orthodox convert, has stated: "We Orthodox are [in the World Council of Churches], not simply to bear witness to what we ourselves believe, but also to listen to what others have to say." Dominique Janicaud, in his criticism of the recent theological turn in French phenomenology, made a similar point: "The dice are loaded and choices made; faith rises majestically in the background.". And of course, even in the case of the replacement of Matthias, while the final decision is done through casting lots, the group of believers chose the two candidates (Acts 1:23). This is problematic for two reasons. The Orthodox Question: Why Catholic and Not Eastern Orthodox? Led by Christos Yannaras and John Zizioulas, this group upturned the Western-dominated mode of theological study in Greece, replacing it with what has come to be known as "the theology of the 60s" - the distinguishing features of which were: (It is not unimportant to note that the present Archbishop of Australia, Stylianos, is often counted as a member of this theological movement.). Rollins's Ikon group, in particular, is modelled on Derrida's notion of "religion without religion" - this signalling a departure from dogmatic (revealed) faith so as to make room for a wider conception of faith as the quasi-transcendental condition of any meaningful interaction and communication. But the apophaticism of the Orthodox Church is circumscribed by its cataphaticism, its authoritative positive pronouncements - stumbling-blocks to a generation, like Leivaditis's, betrayed by ideologies (of left and right) which could not accommodate the complexities, vagaries and frailties of life. Similarly, there is no wish to rule out the possibility of beginning one's journey from a religious standpoint, particularly if one thinks that there are no metaphysically neutral starting-points in philosophy. Fed-up Catholics Shouldn't Turn to Orthodoxy | Catholic Answers Second, Pope Benedict is Patriarch of the West. Its appeals to Rome for help were not connected with a recognition of the principle of Roman jurisdiction but were based on the view that Rome had the same truth, the same good. In any case, my critique is primarily targeted at less avant-garde varieties of religion, and in particular those that have a comparatively stable and well-defined set of beliefs about such matters as God or the divine, and the nature and purpose of human life. It is not the way that faithful Orthodox view matters of theology. This is the case, for example, with Brian McLaren's "emergent church" movement and Peter Rollins's Ikon assemblies, both seeking to redeem and reinvent religion rather than doing away with it altogether. Receiving Communion - Questions & Answers - Orthodox Church in Why be Anglican and not Catholic? Canon of Scripture - Questions & Answers - Orthodox Church in WebWhy did I choose the Catholic Church and not the Orthodox Church? The first question implies belief(s), as does the second. Thus, all Roman Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Roman Catholic. Im pleased to have real life examples to work with here. Kalaitzides notes that there are valuable lessons that the Orthodox Church stands to gain from a creative dialogue with the modern (and also postmodern) world, such as: recognising the harm in a nationalistic understanding of Christianity; active participation of the laity in worship; espousing the values of democracy and human rights; rethinking the role of women in the church; rehabilitating the value of the body, physicality and sexuality; and engaging more closely with the theories and discoveries of science. It is characterized by its continuity with the An Orthodox friend of mine once told me that most Orthodox would probably feel the biggest difference between the two is Scholasticism, which most Orthodox are not too fond of. Imagine all the competing binding and loosing all 30,000+ of them! ). In Western Europe, some sided with Constantinople, some with Moscow, and some refused to take sides, which was the majority position in the Americas. In other places Ive read that Romes apostolic succession and primacy within the Church is unquestionable. I will mention only two of them. I am pessimistic about the prospects of the Orthodox hierarchy heeding this salutary warning. In In considering the question of whether Jesus was (or was believed to be) God, it is not unusual for contemporary readers, and even historians, to transplant modern-day preconceptions about the relationship between God and the world to ancient societies like the Palestinian Jewish community of Jesus's day. WebAnswer Orthodox Christians understand the word catholic word to mean whole, complete, lacking in nothing. Hence, when we say one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, we mean that the one, holy, and apostolic Church is whole, complete, and lacking in nothing. Friday fast This is a very selective form of listening: the others enable us to better see how we are right, rather than being humbly open to correction by others. He then pointed to all the leaders of the Old Testament being directly appointed by God, and makes the claim that it shouldnt be any different in the New Testament. The job of the laity isnt to settle all the worlds theological disputes, but to have faith in what the Church teaches. Youve got to be careful when you hear modern Eastern Orthodox folks making such comments. and the only thing you orthodox talk about all the time is bad popes and the filioque clause which was explained by catholic theologians like 1000 times by now. I do understand what Jesus meant when he said I pray that they be one. At the same time, however, the current system of administration - which has been in place since the second or third century, and was validated by Emperor Constantine in the fourth century - continues to be based around the person of the bishop.). Why I Became Catholic and not Orthodox - Issuu I was Catholic for 4 years before converting to Holy Orthodoxy. Confused. : r/OrthodoxChristianity - Reddit My reservations, alas, go much deeper. He also writes and translates poetry, his most recent poetry collection being Appearance and Reality. It Estonia some sided with Constantinople, others with Moscow. As Bart Ehrman explains: "In this ancient way of thinking, both humanity and divinity are on a vertical continuum, and these two continuums sometimes meet at the high end of the one and low end of the other. Ive heard Protestants say that the Council said the same thing about Cyril as they did about Leo, but this is plainly untrue (though the praise Cyril for having the faith of Peter and Leo). Their world or metaphysics had more in common with the complicated emanationist schemes of the pagan neoplatonists than with the dualism and even deism of many contemporary Christians. Again, many others - from Russell to the New Atheists - have said likewise. The Apostles permit them to be democratically chosen (v. 3), before they are ordained by the Apostles themselves (v. 6). But this is not the only or even the chief reason why I have chosen to leave the Orthodox Church. But I would suspect that few Christian philosophers would view dialogue in such terms - that is, as something that holds the potential to change one's beliefs and practices in drastic ways. The other 13 autocephalous Churches served notice that they were striking neither Constantinople nor Moscow from their diptychs, so they would be remaining in communin, so they had better resolve the matter between them, which was done in a month or so, and Moscow put Constantinople back in its diptychs and resumed communion. Even those who subject Christian beliefs to critical scrutiny give the impression at least of already having made up their minds before their "inquiry" has begun; and it is not unusual to find a high degree of confidence (smacking of triumphalism) displayed towards the case they have constructed in support of Christian theism (or an element thereof, such as bare theism). And, further, unnecessary prominence is often accorded to expensive vestments and utensils, and ornate (even pompous) architecture and paintings, thus creating a sense of theatricality and an aura of mystique, to the exclusion of an approach that is more politically engaged or one that promotes rational understanding. Your post above argues for the Church of Rome always have a place of primacy above the other patriarchs. As you pointed out, we affirm everything they do, but We just affirm more, and often in different language. But from my (limited) experience with the Orthodox Church, I feel this is the crux of the issue we affirm more and that more for them includes heresies. In The Clash of Civilizations, Samuel Huntington infamously stated that Europe ends where Western Christianity ends and Islam and Orthodoxy begin. But I am among you as one who serves. WebWhile one might argue that any number of situations constitute a good reason or cause, the critical point is that without the mutual agreement of both the Orthodox and Roman I came to see, however, that Heidegger was not exactly advocating atheism, but only a kind of methodological atheism in philosophy, which (in the guise of phenomenology) seeks to provide an analysis of being that is independent of, and prior to, the analyses of beings provided by any of the ontic, positive sciences - including theology. Why Can't Women Be Priests When Pat. so anti catholicism started in the early christianity since greeks didnt want to be under Roman rule in any way so starting from 4th century and constantine they paved the road for their own version of christianity that led all other eastern and oriental from the right path. Second,Pope Benedict is Patriarch of the West. The Apocrypha Rome has Apostolic Succession through both the Apostles Peter and Paul. Alain Pilon. thats why the sack of constantinople was triggered anyway. wow. Orthodox First, its fundamentally inconsistent with the ecclesiology proclaimed by either the Orthodox or Catholic Church. I thought the Eastern Orthodox was not Catholic. And in particular, a group of brilliant but relatively unknown (to English-speaking audiences) twentieth-century Greek poets and novelists writing in the midst of violence and war, persecution and imprisonment. Why I'm Not Orthodox | Christianity Today There are also significant challenges relating to the ways in which the church is structured. The options to follow the local or the See of Rome are not options right now because we can only look to the 1st millennium for answers because the West and the East have both been apostate for centuries now and Francis, Bartholomew, and Krill are Masons and so have been their immediate PreDecessors and anyone in communion with them is also a schismatic, a heretic, and an apostate. heresy), formed the Estonian Orthodox Church. The life of the mind as practiced by Socrates is not well suited to church membership, or any religious affiliation for that matter other than perhaps liberal groups like Ikon. Did Jesus's earliest followers believe him to be God incarnate? An earlier, much shorter version of this essay was published in the Greek-Australian newspaper, Neos Kosmos, on 24 October 2015. When I enter there, in a church of the Greeks. When there have been attempts at reform, these have nearly always taken a decidedly conservative and reactionary cast. But look at the part Fr. Is that even possible? There is some value in providing such an outline, given the current rise in popularity in Orthodoxy, as witnessed by the many defections from more liberal denominations (for example, churches that ordain women) and, on a scholarly level, the interest and deference given to the medieval Greek patristic tradition (especially such figures as Gregory of Nyssa and Maximus the Confessor) and to various themes and ideas in Orthodox theology and spirituality (such as theosis or deification, apophaticism and social trinitarianism). and how many locals did russians killed during their expansion and forceful conversion of locals into orthodox (same tactics as the ottomans). For which is the greater, one who sits at table, or one who serves? Thats the Catholic argument. Additionally,Peter has the ability to speak on behalf of the Twelve, as he did in Acts 2, and Matthew 16:15-16, and so forth. My doubts now extend to the creedal core of the Christian faith. the lord never said that all people will be holy in His Church he only said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church. Funny though that we are probably all laymen.Guess our leaders have failed us,been over a thousand years and nothing solved. It is what Heidegger envisioned as a type of thinking that is always underway, travelling "off the beaten track" onto bypaths and even dead-ends, but with no predetermined end in sight. The emphasis on hesychasm and noetic prayer and the direct experience of God distinguishes the East from Western Christianity. So for 500 years theyve been fed a steady dose of anti-Catholicism, attacking anything that looks strange to them, and this bias has become so ingrained that the average person will look with utter disdain upon Catholicism. It is a fact that the pope always sought secular power, all of them except for one, go and search to see who that was. In an effort to "de-Westernise" Orthodox theology, a call was issued by a number of prominent theologians in the years immediately following the Second World War to release Orthodoxy from its captivity. We just affirm more, and often in different language. (This is not to overlook the fact that the Orthodox Church lacks the powerful centralised authority structure found in, for example, the Roman Catholic Church. In the Christian sense, the term means "conforming to the Christian faith as represented in the June 23, 2023. This might be fine for an aesthete like Cavafy and some Orthodox clergy, but what significance could these smells and bells have for metropolitan Melbournites? The first of these concerns the logical and metaphysical difficulties created by the doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation. WebOrthodox Christians consider Jesus Christ to be the head of the church, while the Roman Catholic Church is headed by the Pope, who uses the title of the Vicar of Christ. It seems to me that Catholic Christianity provides the only viable road map forward to have both the fullness of faith in truth and Christian unity. At least, this is the only logical conclusioon to such reasoning. Web8 Reasons Why Im Catholic not Orthodox Why what starts in schism ends in heresy Knowland Knows Nov 21, 2022 14 18 1. Todays celebration is an invitation extended to both our Churches to the unity of the Cross. The Orthodox Church isnt ONE. Acknowledges His Family 'Just Plain Disagrees' with Him Amid Presidential Bid: 'I Love Them Back'. Therefore the democratic election of the pope disproves the papacy and the human appointment of bishops disprove apostolic succession. He also argues that Peter was chosen personally by Christ, not democratically elected in a conclave like most popes, and therefore the authority that was given to Peter was only given to him and not to successors since they were not personally elected by Christ Himself. Thanks for your response. In Orthodoxy there is an emphasis on praxis, ortho-praxy, as much as orthodoxy. Ive noticed the EO have a tendency to paint their side as Roses while painting Catholicism as a thoroughly corrupted manure pile. WebFed-up Catholics Shouldnt Turn to Orthodoxy Michael Lofton 3/2/2022 Download Audio only: Michael Lofton of the Reason and Theology podcast shares his experience of leaving So if you want to follow Option A, and you live in the West, go with the pope.. Canon 3 only reaffirms this. It was during Scholasticism that the two Ecumenical Councils that temporarily united East and West were held (Lyons and Florence. as applicable to every believer, not just the Apostles) this would have immediately become moot at the death of the last Apostle. Your email address will not be published. Your email address will not be published. We have shepherds. For these reasons I have come to regard religious commitment as incompatible with philosophy. Maxwell cites, in the broader context of Lk. amid the liturgical voices and harmonies, and the stately rhythm of their every move -, most resplendent in the finery of their vestments -. Tikhon, do you view the modern Western canonized saints as illegitimate? Scripture tells us to love our separated brethren. Like their Russian predecessors, the 1960s Greek theologians saw themselves as the faithful heirs of a religious tradition (specifically, the mystical and patristic tradition of the East) which needed to be purified from the unfortunate contaminations of Western theology, particularly its (perceived) legalism and scholasticism. A case in point is the influential twentieth-century push in Orthodox theological circles to "return to the Fathers" and create a "neo-patristic synthesis." I will then turn in the final part of this article to the even more radical view at which I have arrived recently, where commitment to any institutionalised form of religion, Christian or otherwise, is regarded as incompatible with the pursuit of truth and wisdom.
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